we're not entirely convinced it doesn't say happy birthday, jon scott. jon: i had nothing to do wit. jenna: thanks for joining us, everybody. jon: "america live" starts right now. megyn: thanks, guys, and happy birthday, jon scott. fox news alert on a new warning from a top senate democrat who says the congressional effort to cut our national debt is doomed to failure. welcome to "america live," everyone, i'm megyn kelly. it is getting down to the wire now as a group of lawmakers face a hard and fast deadline to reach a deal to cut spending and put a machete to the debt. the group so far coming up empty-handed, and now new york senator charles schumer is predicting the so-called supercommittee will fail to reach a deal. my next guest says that will disrupt the financial markets, hurt consumer confidence and will result in a big new hit to america's credit rating. charles payne of the fox business network is with me now. charles, let's start with that

last item because when standard & poor's gave us the first credit downgrade, it dominated the news cycle for days and weeks and was a huge deal. you say expect it to happen again with the other two credit reporting agencies as well if this supercommittee goes the route charles schumer says it will. >> absolutely, it will. that was a shot across the bow, really a warning shot sort of like, hey, guys, get your act together because this is just the first in a step, in the next step which is an even further downgrade. so we already know what's waiting for us. we know the reaction. here's the thing you have to worry about. our bond market didn't fall apart, so there are a whole lot of people out there who are now comfortable with the idea that, hey, maybe aaa status is a big deal. it is a big deal, and it does hurt our ability to raise money and in so many other ways. so the first step, the one about the rate downgrade, that is already built into the pipeline. we know it's going to happen if these guys don't get their act together. megyn: so we already have the downgrade from standard & poor's. if we get it from moody's and

fitch, you say it is a big deal, but, you know, it's not like a further downgrade from aaa, right? it's just all three of the major credit reporting agencies saying, you know, we all agree, you suffered a downgrade. >> yeah. but aaa is something important. it says a hot about our country. -- a lot about our country and about our inability to make decisions at the highest levels in our government. so it speaks volumes because, you know, we've got the debt issues, obviously, but now what these agencies will be saying to us and the world is we simply can't get our act together. megyn: talk about what will happen n your judgment, to the stock market if this supercommittee fails. >> the last time we saw this sort of turmoil, our stock market fell completely apart. we had the continuing resolution this month, but no doubt november 23rd, when they should have some sort of deal, it would be, to me, devastating. it's the largest dark cloud right out there. look how much turmoil up and down our markets took over greece, over the inability of

greece to get its act together. could you imagine if we start to go down that same slippery slope? it's my biggest fear in the stock market right now. megyn: and yet do you feel like chuck schumer is just telling the truth? because we've had so many reports of they can't reach a deal, they just don't see eye to eye. the democrats want one thing, the republicans want another. there was a so-called gang of six -- you need seven, by the way, to get a deal -- who were trying to inch toward a deal, but so far no. >> i've got to tell you, megyn, you know, a part of me does say, you know what? everyone's saying this, so there's a contrarian part of me that kind of thinks when conventional wisdom is so solid at one point, it doesn't have to be that way. there's been a letter sent by 100 member members of the house, and, you know, there could be a surprise. it's surprising to me that such a high ranking public official would do this. you know, i mean, save the blame game for later. let's see if we can actually make this thing work.

and i agree, when they put the teams together, it felt like a roller derby, you know, roster. we've got knuckles o bronsy on this side, it didn't feel like they were putting together a team that knew how to reach across the aisle. nevertheless, there's a slim chance we could get something in part because we expect zero. megyn: charles payne, thank you. >> all right, thanks a lot. megyn: well, new worries about this fight over federal spending leading some lawmakers to ask president obama to cut short an upcoming trip overseas. the president leaves this friday for nine days of meetings with asian pacific leaders. one strategist is expressing concerns over america's money troubles saying it is, quote, better for the president to be in indiana than indonesia right now. the president twice before had to cancel plans to go overseas, once during negotiations over the health care law, the second because of the bp oil spill off of the gulf coast.

we are just moments away now from a new twist in the anonymous sexual harassment allegations leveled against herman cain. the presidential candidate facing accusations that he harassed three different unnamed women during his time at the national restaurant association roughly ten years ago. later this hour attorney and victims' rights advocate gloria allred says she will meet with the media to detail similar claims she says that come from a fourth woman. campaign carl cameron is out on the campaign trail today in davenport, iowa. carl? >> reporter: hi, megyn, and we're told this fourth woman will make the appearance with gloria allred in new york city, present herself and may even herself speak again with unsubstantiated allegations of sexual harassment by herman cain when he was the top lobbyist for the national restaurant association in d.c. back during the '90s. gloria allred has had some very high profile cases over the years. in the last congressional and

midterm elections, the governor's race in california had mrs. allred's participation noted when she came forth with a domestic helper who claimed that she was, had been an illegal immigrant working for meg whitman, the republican nominee for governor in the golden state, and that was a major moment in meg whitman's ultimately unsuccessful gubernatorial campaign in california. allred has not put out any details other than that the woman will be with her, and this allegation will be made. the cain campaign has said they are not going to comment as yet on unmet allegations from anonymous sources, they don't know the details. if the woman does, in fact, appear and becomes public, perhaps they'll have something to say, but the campaign was quick to note that gloria allred is a longtime democratic donor, she has been accused over the years of being somewhat of a self-promoter and that these charges, even the ones that were included formal complaints back when cain was the head of the national restaurant association,

were 9/11 proven, never agreed to and always disputed by herman cain. he says this is a political attack, and apparently the next wave will come in a half hour from now. megyn: gloria's done some good work and questionable work in terms of who she represents. we'll let the viewers make up their minds on that one. carl, thank you. >> thank you. megyn: mr. cain has done a pretty good job deflecting these accusations of late, but he is also reminding the press of their own responsibilityings. take a listen to what he told one curious reporter. >> mr. cain, the attorney for one of the women who filed a sexual harassment complaint -- >> don't even go there. >> can i ask my question? >> >> no. my chief of staff, please, send him the journalistic code of ethics. >> will do. megyn: reminding reporters of their own ethics by happening out printed copies of the ethics guidelines from the society of professional journalists. the campaign high lights the part that cautions reporters to

test the accuracy of all sources and exercising care to avoid inadvertent error. deliberate distortion never permissible and also to insure sources are identified whenever feasible as the public is entitled to as much information as possible on the source's reliability. new developments today in the case of missing missouri baby lisa irwin. we are now learning police are preparing to interview lisa's older brothers. remember, this interview was on, it was off, it was on, it was off. now they tell us they are confident that interview will go forward this week as they continue to make new attempts, unsuccessful, to the talk to the parents separately. trace gallagher following this live from our west coast newsroom. trace? >> reporter: and suddenly, megyn, this investigation appears to be back in high gear, right? the brothers being interviewed as early as this week, and remember the last time these brothers were interviewed was the morning that baby lisa disappeared. and it's unclear if at that point in time police realized

the mom, deborah bradley, had been drinking. it could bring up a whole new host of questions. remember, those boys will not have police detectives in the room during that interview, they'll be interviewed by a child services specialist. but the police will be able to feed that specialist some questions through an earpiece. kansas city police say the delay on this interviewing process was mostly because the parents kept shifting their attorneys. police also say they have now checked out a number of potential persons of interest, and none of them -- this is quoting from them -- as standing out as a potential suspect. that includes the handyman, remember jersey? they said they have contacted him and talked to him a number of times, and he has been fully cooperative. police are making a brand new call now to interview the parents. they believe the parents have a wealth of information in this case, and it's kind of interesting because they're not saying the parents are not cooperating. they have said that in the past. they're not saying it now.

all they're saying is they would like to interview them because they believe they hold many, many answers. we asked if they were close to making an arrest, and the response, megyn, was, quote: i don't know. all this coming as baby lisa turns one year old this week. missing, now, for more than a month. megyn: it's interesting, because they say that guy jersey who's emerged so many times as a possible intruder, purely speculative and lab a-- has been arrested on another warrant, we believe he's still in police custody, the cops are saying he is cooperating. they won't use that word with respect to the participants,al -- parents, although they want to be careful about saying saying the parentst cooperating, but they clearly want to interview them again, and they are not allowed to do that pursuant to the lawyer for the family. trace, thank you. coming up later, we're going to speak with former nypd detective pat brosnan about these latest developments, and

in about 30 minutes when we get into pat what the police have just told us with respect to the three so-called eyewitnesses who claim that they saw a man with a baby leaving or around the vicinity of the irwins' house on the night in question. we just have new information in to "america live" on that. we'll share that with you when we get into pat, 30 minutes away. the administration is on the verge of a decision that could bring 20-50,000 new jobs to the united states. it involves an oil pipeline project that also means new energy from a close ally, but we are now learning that the president could put this off for more than a year, put off just the decision on whether to do it. why would he want to do that? lou dobbs has the answers next. and a group of occupy d.c. ralliers try to storm the defending the american dream summit. some organizers from the conservative group say when they called 911 for protection, all they got was a dial tone. we'll investigate.

megyn: plus, a group in d.c. wanted to take fdr's stirring d-day prayer and put it on the world war ii memorial, but they are meeting a lot of resistance, and we will show you why. >> and the peace that will let all men live in freedom reaping the just rewards of their honest toil, they will be done, almighty god. amenment when you have diabetes... your doctor will say get smart about your weight. that's why there's new glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes.

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you know what else is early? medicare open enrollment. now through dember 7th. can i stick with old medicare plan? sure! or find a new plan with better coverage, less cost, or both. medicare plans give you free cancer screenings and wellness visits and 50% off on brand-name prescriptions when you're in the doughnut hole it's part of the healthcare law. so it's time to look, compare... and choose the right plan for you. learn more at 1-800-medicare or medicare.gov. megyn: fox news alert, the pennsylvania attorney general is holding a press conference at this moment. two high ranking school officials from penn state being arraigned today on charges they lied to a grand jury over a critical matter. that grand jury was investigating possible sexual abuse by top coach -- by a top

coach with the penn state football team. and now there is word that this administration may have lied to protect that coach. he was defensive coordinator jerry sandusky. the accusation against these other two is that they lied to protect him. they are all facing charges today, they all maintain their innocence. we're going to have a live report in just five minutes on this, and kelly's court takes a serious look at this disturbing case next hour. high stakes debate is heating up over president obama's pending decision on the keystone pipeline. it's an enormous pipeline that would transport millions of barrels of oil from canada down to texas. it would create at least 50,000 jobs according to estimates and help generate billions of dollars in revenue. sounds good, right? well, environmentalists and some farmers in the midwest say, hold on. and the administration now finds

itself caught in a game of tug-of-war. either side with supporters will reap the pipeline's benefits or with environmentalists who fear the pipeline's impact. so what will the president do here? there's a lot at stake for him and for the country. fox business network host lou dobbs is with me now. lou, so this, the environmentalists don't like it, they're worried about what the pipeline's going to do, is it going to leak, what's it going to do to the midwest, so on, but the labor unions and others love it because it decreases our dependence on foreign oil. canada is a friend. now we're hearing reports president obama may punt until after the election. >> and both sides are rationalizing that deferral of judgment on the part of the president which tells you just how political the decision is. when both sides are sufficiently uncertain of the outcome, they're willing to rationalize whether it be for or against whatever the president decides waiting until after the election. i think that everyone should be

insisting this president make a decision. i think that the calamity that awaits him is continuing to be seen as an indecisive and risk-averse president, and i think that that will be clam my -- calamity for him. megyn: if you look at it as a political matter, respect the labor groups -- aren't the labor groups much bigger in terms of power and donations to the democratic causes than the environmental groups? and you're talking about the creation of, potentially, up to 50,000 jobs. why wouldn't the president just go with the labor groups because they're such supporters and jobs? jobs, jobs, jobs? >> because he has them in his pocket either way. in point of fact, he has the environmentalists in the his pocket either way. they are part of the base. it depends on who is motivated to get out at the polls next year. megyn: you don't want to tamp down anybody's spirit -- >> exactly. ask poll after poll shows, you know, that the excitement, if you will, the animation, the intensity as it's described in

polls is tre for the base. it's not right now. the president has, however, i think has a more profound issue in front of him, and that's the national interest. this is a president who's got to start demonstrating that he's acting in the national interests and not pandering to specific interest groups whether they be socioethnosent rick interest groups, whomever. or wall street, for that matter. megyn: what do you contend is in the national interests here with this pipeline? >> it's straightforward, in my opinion. we have immense experience in this country with pipelines. we know how to build them, we know how to build them safely and to minimize the risk to the environment. we've done so whether it be on the north slope of alaska, whether it be through the heart of america. this is absolutely in the national interests. it's reduce our dependence on foreign oil by approximately 6% in the short term. that is marginal in the view of some, but it is an important step in the minds of most.

it's one that's got to be carried forward. there was a time in this country, megyn, where we made decisions like this in the national interest not in the political interests, and there was a time when we made a decision irrespective of the business interests. there was an absolute separation and a clear-cut path that every president tried to follow. what is in the national interest, irrespective of whether it's environmental interest groups or whether it is the u.s. chamber of commerce or the business round table. this president has sworn to act in the national interest. he is right now seemingly, once again, stymied as a leader because he is trying to appease the special interests of his own party. megyn: this, this has gotten a lot of attention. we had some folks on this show debate this not long ago, and even the folks who were opposed to it were saying we like it, it's going to create jobs, we just want them to sort of lay it down differently, we want them to take a different route. >> well, you know, it's not -- this should be the judgment to find a way forward that does

minimize, certainly, the environmental risk. but at the same time, accelerates meeting the demands of both our labor markets. we are suffering, as you report each day, mightily in terms of employment. we have national interest responsibilities that he could also meet, but he's got to do that as a strong, positive leader. this is a grand opportunity for him. it is also a potential calamity for him. megyn: lou dobbs, thank you, sir. >> great to be with you. megyn: well, a close call on the way for planet earth. we'll show you the massive asteroid headed our way, here we go again, and tell you what scientists are now predicting. and president obama facing a challenge that only one president has been able to overcome in the last five decades. the new threats to the president's second term ten minutes away. >> when i said change we can believe in, i didn't say change we can believe in tomorrow. [laughter] not change we can believe in next week.

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megyn: fox news alert, new details from a news conference that is just wrapping up. a coach from one of america's best known college football teams is arrested on sex abuse charges. this weekend former penn state defensive coordinator jerry sandusky, the guy on the left, was charged with sexually abusing eight young boys. then two university staffers resigned -- high-level staffers -- amid accusations they covered up the abuse and then lied about it. they have been arraigned, they all maintain their innocence. david lee miller is live in harrisburg, pennsylvania, with more.

david lee? >> reporter: megyn, let's start with the latest developments. i'm outside a courthouse in downtown harrisburg, and little more than half an hour it is expected those two high-ranking administrators with penn state are going to arrive here for their arraignment, 57-year-old tim curly, the athletic director of the school and gary schultz, the former president of finance and business, he has also stepped down. they are each accused of perjury, lying to a grand jury investigating sandusky, charged with 40 counts of molesting eight young boys. he is a former defensive coach at penn state and also the founder of a charity called the second mile organization, an organization dedicated to helping youth, young people. and those, according to the authorities, are the very people that he victimized. just a short time ago the attorney general here in pennsylvania, linda kelly, held a news conference describing in some detail what sandusky is accused of. listen. >> it was the activity in those football locker rooms first

reported by a victim in 1998 and again by a witness in 2002 that are particularly disturbing. >> reporter: and let's pick it up there. in 2002, megyn, in 2002 a grad student told the two administrators, curly and schultz, that he saw sandusky in the shower doing something inappropriate with a young boy. appearing at the grand jury, curly and schultz only said that sandusky was committing some sort of horseplay and that they did not take the allegation seriously, essentially contradicting what that graduate assistant told them. they painted a very different picture to that grand jury. furthermore, they essentially lied about what happened, so they are accused of covering up what took place and lying about it to the grand jury. and now let's speak for a moment about joe paterno, the head coach at penn state. he was aware that something questionable did take place in

the locker room. it had been brought to his attention. it had not been spelled out, and only moments ago -- and this is very significant -- the attorney general for pennsylvania said that paterno did what he was required to do under the law, he notified other administrators at the school. curly and schultz, the two men who are going to be arraigned here in just a short period of time. and that raises the next question very quickly, could there be other people charged in connection with this case? the attorney general would not comment, so that is still at least a possibility. and lastly, she underscored that this is an ongoing investigation, and she asked for witnesses and other victims to, please, come forward. if convicted, sandusky could get life behind bars, the other two high-ranking administrators for prnlg could each face seven years in prison. megyn? megyn: david lee miller, thank you. the attorney general saying that coach paterno did everything he was legally required to do.

did he do everything he was ethically required to do? when someone comes to you, a graduate student, and reports they have seen what this man says he saw in the shower, do you need to do more than just report it to another administerrer? should he have called the police? should or could he face charges, and what about the charges that are already brought now against these other three? we will debate it all in today's kelly's court, well, about one hour away. meantime, ugly reports today about a conservative conference and what happened when a group of angry occupy wall street protesters tried to storm the defending the american dream summit in d.c. we'll show you why some folks are questioning the police response to the mess. plus, a group in d.c. wanted to take fdr's stirring d-day prayer and put it on the world war ii memorial. they are meeting with a lot of resistance, and we'll show you why. >> and, o lord, give us faith, give us faith in thee; faith in our sons, faith in each other,

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megyn: ugly reports today about a conservative conference and what happened when a group of occupy wall street protesters tried to storm the defending the american dream summit in washington. some of the conference organizers say emergency responders dropped their call, not once, not twice, but four times. trace gallagher live in our west

coast newsroom on that one. trace? >> reporter: you can see the pictures, megyn. inside you have americans for prosperity, the conservative group, they're inside the d.c. convention center. and outside you saw the occupy washington protesters. you see the cop pushing out of there? the d.c. police were on hand, but the protesters had kind of blocked some of the entrances and exits, and you see they are kind of pounding on the window. there were arrests made, but some inside the convention center were worried there was not enough of a police presence, and they didn't know how they were going to get out of this building, especially the elderly and handicapped people, so they called 931 on four different -- 931 on four different occasions. they say the dispatcher hung up on them saying police were already on scene. the afp members say on top of not having enough police there, they say when they did walk out, four of their members were injured, and police did not come to their aid. the police tell us that's

ridiculous, they did go to help those people who were hurt in this, and we talked to the dispatchers who said point-blank, we never hang up on callers. so they have not released yet those 911 tapes, and we should note the mayor of d.c. as well as the police chief are now saying in a statement that they will be more vigilant when it comes to handling the occupy washington protesters, megyn. megyn: all right, trace, thank you. i shall not seek, and i will not accept the nomination of my party for another term as your president. megyn: the year was 1968. president lyndon b. johnson announcing to america he would not seek re-election. lbj then facing growing anger over the vietnam war and an approval rating of just 42%. fast forward 43 years later, and you have president obama in the

oval office facing growing anger over the economy and approval ratings in the mid 0s. only -- 40s. only one president in five decades has won re-election with an approval rating below 50% a year out. brad blakeman is a former deputy assistant to president bush, and dick harpootlian is a south carolina democratic party chair. and that president who had an approval rating one year out of 43% -- i'm sorry, 49%, was richard m. nixon. we all know how he achieved that. [laughter] so the point is, brad, that, you know, the president's approval rating is low, and while it's not the be-all, end-all predicter of how things are going to go in november, there is some historical context for democrats to be concerned. >> absolutely. look, history has a way of repeating itself, and this president has had a precipitous drop in the polls, and i don't think he's reached bottom yet, megyn. i think in june if the supreme

court were to totally throw out obamacare, i think his numbers would absolutely go into the 30s, the same place where jimmy carter found himself in his re-election. the president who promised to have all the answers to everything that ails us, sadly, turns out to not have any of the answers as president. all his campaign promises have turned out to be negatives for this country whether it be the economy, immigration, taxation. so i think the republicans have a lot to be hopeful for, but it's going to be a close election nonetheless. megyn: you know, dick, you look at the history, president carter a year out had a 32% approval rating, president ford had a 44% approval rating. the latest gallup poll shows president obama at a 43% approval rating. does it concern you? >> well, certainly. we all know this is going to be a close race. it's going to be a close race because this country was, no offense, brad, driven into the ditch by george bush --

>> yeah, of course. megyn: no offense taken, i'm sure. >> 36 months is not enough time to correct the eight years of mistakes by george bush. but having said that, you've got to have somebody to beat somebody. right now mitt the flip, is he pro-abortion, anti-abortion, pro-universal health care, against universal health care? rick perry, that display up in new hampshire, looked like he was drunk. and what's happening in south carolina, as you know we're one of the early primaries, we see today that newt gingrich is staffing up, he's showing up. he smells blood, and he believes that he can win the south carolina primary and iowa, and it may actually be that newt gingrich is getting ready to surge 60 days out from the primary. so for us democrats, this is, again, i compare this to midget mud wrestling. we don't know who's going to win, but when it's over, it's going to be a midget covered in mud. [laughter] megyn: by the way, you're not allowed to say midget anymore, it's little people. >> what do you say? megyn: but i'm sure the rest of

the reference doesn't offend them either. little people. >> vertically challenged. >> dick n that little sentence you just knocked out another important voting group. >> the midgets? megyn: stop staying it. i'm going to get hate mail. >> i don't think they can reach the machine. megyn: stop. stop that. [laughter] brad, there is one president who had a 48% approval rating which isn't all that great in early november right before he got reelected, and that was your guy, president george w. bush. how did he do it? according to reports it was his money, he had a lot of dough, and he was very well organized. does that sound like anybody we know? >> it does. i think obama will be well funded and well organized, but the problem is you can't well fund and organize your way out of a terrible record. and i think this president who promised that he would turn the economy around has failed, and in the his own words he said if i don't turn this economy around, i deserve to be a one-term president. well, guess what? he's going to get his wish. unemployment will still be above

8%, i dare say close to 9%. >> oh, quit hoping, brad. >> bankruptcies are record high, and it's not george bush's fault, dick, it's obama's fault. he's been there now for three and a half years, and he's had a miserable record. it's his record that he's going to either win or lose on and not george w. bush's. megyn: dick, i'll give you the last word, no president since fdr has won a second term with unemployment higher than 7.2%, no one's predicting -- >> right. we've seen unemployment slow up a little bit. i think what we just heard from brad is the republican rant and the republican chant we're going to hear for the next year; oh, thank god the economy hasn't gotten better, thank god things are terrible because we're not doing anything -- wait a minute, brad, they're not doing anything in congress to make the economy get started again. they've opposed every effort of this president to get his jobs bill passed. they may disagree with it, but vote on it. >> vote on our bills! vote on our jobs bill, and we'll

vote on yours. megyn: and we'll leave it at that. >> if you defeat ours, then we'll vote on yours, how about that, brad? >> oh, okay. no, i don't like that. megyn: brad, dick, thank you both so much. >> thanks. >> thank you. megyn: significant developments today in the search for missing missouri baby lisa irwin. detectives first thought the baby was snatched by an intruder. well, that's not true. that was one of the theories they were pursuing. in three minutes see why that theory may now be being cast aside. plus, the major backlash over a field trip where wisconsin parents were told their fourth graders would spend the day protesting their republican governor. and who will get the blame for the struggling economy? frank luntz with some fascinating new research. >> the question in this election is not are you better off than you were four years ago, the real question is, will this country be better off four years from now? [ male announcer ] cranberry juice? wake up!

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megyn: well, is the theory of an intruder in the baby lisa case falling aart? the police moments ago telling fox news that nothing has come of any of the alleged sightings of a man with a baby on the night little lisa went missing, revealing that they have, quote, moved on from all three of those eyewitness accounts and from the surveillance video that showed a man at a gas station near the irwin home hours after lisa disappeared, this video right here. police also telling fox news they have, quote, moved on from the handyman who goes by the nickname jersey who was taken into custody on other charges last month, police saying he had been cooperating with them. all this as police say they are confident that they will get to interview baby lisa's half brothers this week, and they continue to request a sit-down with baby lisa's parents. so far, to no avail since the other early ones. pat brosnan is a criminal

investigator and a former detective, and that's the question, pat, does that tell you that the theory of an intruder in this case is somehow falling apart? >> yes. i think moved on could be interpreted as meaning exactly that. that was yesterday's news, it was asked and answered, and now they're looking at other elements of the case. megyn: there are, you know, these eyewitnesses came forward, one couple lived around the corner from the irwin house, 12:15, saw a man with a baby. 2:15 we have the gas station surveillance video shows, i don't know what, you tell me. but the description of the guy with the baby by those first witnesses and that last witness are very different. >> extremely. megyn: and do police take that into account in saying we're just going to cancel out all of them, or might one be wrong and one be right and maybe one was a guy with baby lisa? >> >> first of all, there was no corroborative surveillance tape to support there was a baby in

the picture. so i think the fable of the ghost intruder who left no dna, no fingerprints is yesterday's news. i believe that was what they investigated and they've moved on to interviewing the siblings, reinterviewing the participants. megyn: mark fuhrman told me something interesting, and you actually have been on the job investigating cases for years. he says most criminals are stupid. they're dumber than you think. >> absolutely. megyn: and so when you go to a house to investigate something like this, nine times out of ten there will be fingerprints, the guy won't be smart enough -- there'd be some evidence that a guy broke into the house and stole the baby, so they'll dust for fingerprints on the crib or the doorknob, or there'll be some evidence on the window sill -- >> it's almost impossible not for it to happen. megyn: so the cops would know if there's an intruder in all likely hood at this point. >> extreme. statistical probability would support something would have been left, an eyelash, a finger print, a foot print. megyn: even if you put gloves

on, do you agree that usually the case when there's an intruder, something is left behind? >> 99.9. megyn: wow. >> yes. megyn: the police say one of the things they want to do in interviewing the boys is get dna swaps because i guess they want to rule out dna they found in the house? >> yes. i'd say what they call elimination dna. 34 days later they still haven't interviewed the siblings? this is troubling. it's implausible, it's illogical, and it's unreasonable. all the elements of this fable of the ghost intruder who went through the skinny window and lev stated the baby out -- levitated the baby out. all of a sudden missouri is a bastion for babies for sale? megyn: well, there doesn't have to be a bastion for it, but couldn't it be possible that somebody either with a deal with the parents or without decided that this baby girl would be worth something and decided to sell her, and she is out there right now with someone who purchased her or thought they

adopted her? >> it's a difficult one because they're not master criminals. there's no master criminals. and what mark said, i concur. criminals really aren't that smart, and they're never smarter than the collective intellect chft fbi -- megyn: aren't they here? whoever did this? >> well, no, i have a theory on it. you know what my theory is. megyn: what? tell us now. >> i think mom got hammered, i think a tragedy occurred and what followed was the cover up, and as you know, the cover up is the kiss of death. megyn: is she so smart she fooled the police and fbi -- >> a lot of times don't mistake smarts for luck. luck enters into the equation. could be all the stars in alinement for her -- alignment for her. it defies logic, pragmatism, all the first and second cousins of an investigation. megyn: they tell us especially this guy jersey, you know, folks are looking at this guy. he was picked up on an unrelated

warrant, he's said to be in custody now. they've moved on from him, but they refuse to tell us have they cleared him. what does that tell you? is. >> a couple things. first of all, it's so convenient to have a homeless guy who may or may not have some intellect problems of his own, but the other issue is that the police don't tell you everything for a lot of different reasons. first thing, whoever is involved you want to give them a sense of ease that we're looking down the wrong avenue, the red herring. we might be falling for it. it's important, and it's valuable, and it's very valid. megyn: that's interesting. pat, thank you for your expertise. >> you're welcome. my pleasure. new questions about the case against dr. conrad murray as we await the jury's decision in the manslaughter trial. we're now hearing talk of a possible hung jury, this is the conclusion they leap to when the jury's had more than an hour in the examination room.

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megyn: well, a quick reminder for those of you online a news conference has just begun featuring gloria allred and a woman who alleges that she was sexually harassed by presidential hopeful herman cain at some point. we are monitoring to see what the news may be here, the press conference also streaming live right now on foxnews.com. as important developments happen, we will bring them to you and tell you what this person claims. well, new outrage following the obama administration's rejection of a request to add president roosevelt's d-day prayer to the world war ii

memorial in washington. what's up with that? trace gallagher live in l.a. >> reporter: it's called the world war ii memorial prayer act, megyn, it's been sponsored by republican bill johnson, and they would add either an inscription or a plaque to the existing world war ii monument, and that would be the prayer that franklin roosevelt read to the country on december 6, 1944. if you don't remember, here's part of that speech. listen. >> in this poignant hour, i ask you to join with me in prayer. this day we've set upon the mighty endeavor, a struggle to reverve our public -- preserve our public. >> reporter: so during a hearing on whether to add the prayer to the memorial, the director of the bureau of land management objected to the plaque saying, quote, it would dilute the memorial's central message and that it should not be altered. he went on to say, and i'm quoting here, that the commemorative works act says that you cannot put something

new, a new commemoration, on an old commemoration, that's just the law. republican lawmakers, as you read here, aric touruated say, and i'm quoting. >> reporter: right now the bureau of land management is saying, hey, it is illegal for the time being to add anything to an existing memorial. they're fighting it, megyn. megyn: wow. trace, thanks. >> reporter: okay. megyn: troubling new polls on the president's approval ratings n. three minutes, top political analysts on why if these numbers don't get better soon, he believes president obama can say good-bye the his election chances. and a teacher in wisconsin in the hot seat. his students were in the fourth grade, and it's a story you may remember very went today's new

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to try them free for 30 days. megyn: new concerns about ugly poll numbers for president obama here on a brand-new hour of "america live." i'm megyn kelly. a poll just out shows 61% of voters strongly disapprove of the way the president is running the economy. the third poll in a row where anger with the president's economic policies has reached new high, and the nasty numbers don't end there. larry sabato is the professor of politics at the university of virginia. the number is ruely high, 61%, and it's not the first poll we have seen. what does it tell you? >> it tells me president obama

is lucky the election is not this year. if it were this year, had it been last week, i think it was unlikely he could have been reelected assuming the republicans nominate a candidate they can unite behind. this is not good news for the president. 3/4 of the americans think the country is on the wrong track. that right thanks wrong track question which -- that right track-wrong track question is fundamental for a presidential election. megyn: what does the white house say that number, right track-wrong track speaks more to the general dissatisfaction with the way washington is working and not on the shoulders of the president. they continue to point out the president is beating most of the gop rivals in head-to-head matchups. another showing who do you trust

more for handling the economy, the republicans and democrats are tied. so it am not that the republicans are doing better than the president. >> they could vote against both if they want to. the president is beating some of the republicans, but by small margins. he's tied with romney and the president is under 50. generally when an incumbent president is under 50% most of the undecideds go to the challenger if the challenger runs a good campaign. there is a lot to be decide. we have a year to go. loads of things can happen but this is not the strongest position for an incumbent president to begin a campaign for election. megyn: talk about how president obama has unique gifts, namely how well organized he is, a list of million people on his email. and the money.

he's got a lot of money and a lot of donors. he's going to set records with the amount of dough he has coming in unlike presidents in the past with low approval ratings like jimmy carter and didn't win reelection. >> organization, money and i would said a third, strong minority support which is continuing. not just african-americans, but also in many states among hispanics and asian-americans. that gives him a strong foundation. and so far it kept him from falling into the 30s the way most presidents under the circumstances have gone. now, will that persist all next year? depends on whether the economy gets better or worse. but one thing i learned over the decades, when the american public feels a change is needed, they make it. even if the incumbent president is spending more money, is better organized, is a better speaker. if they are ready to make a

change, they make a change. megyn: when you have get these numbers, in the top poll in the strongly disapprove category, does it suggest a lot of advertising, stump speeches, the president's recent message of we can't wait, and it's the do-nothing congress. does it suggest to you that people have dmug on their opinions? >> a lot of people have. we live in a polarized era. this is going to be in 2012 an exceptionally polarized election. i think the partisans on each side will have a huge turnout. and straight ticket voting through senate, house and governor and other offices. the same is true for the republicans. you start voting for the republican nominee for president you will stay in that column until the bottom of the ballot. megyn: if you were advising the

will be does he need a -- if you were advising president obama does he need a game changer? >> mainly he need luck. people say you can make your own luck. not here. the economy is gigantic. it's an ocean liner trying to turn. but will it turn in time to help became? that's what he has to hope for. other things he has to do. the democratic campaign is trying to make this a choice rather than a referendum. a choice between obama and the eventually republican nominee rather than a pure referendum on obama thumbs up or thumbs down. if they can make it a choice, if they can do some damage to the republican candidate, maybe, maybe the american public will say, better stick with the devil we know rather than the devil we don't know. megyn: larry sabato, thank you,

sir. a reminder on our political coverage. new ads or breaking news for the campaign trail. you can check out our web site 24/7. foxnews.com/politics for all the latest. check it out. major developments on the economic front after weeks of watching the financial crisis flaij the country of greece, new worries about debt troubles gripping italy, as that country sees its borrowing rates soar to the highest level. it could affect our economy on your bottom line. peter barnes is live in washington. >> italy's debt is more than $2 trillion, five times that of greece. and italy's cost to borrow from investors hit 6.7% for its 10-year bond compared to 2% for u.s.10-year bond. all of this is triggering a lot of talk that italy will need a

big bailout like greece. rumors are swirling that the italian president berlusconi is resigning. he denied that. u.s. officials watching all of this very closely hoping the debt crisis does not spread to other countries in europe. and then to here. the european union is the largest market for u.s. goods and services, accounting for a third of the total sales of the s ann p companies. it's 20% of total u.s. experts which supports 2 million american jobs. there is trillions of dollars in transatlantic lending and financial insurance between european and financial firms and u.s. taxpayers are already back billions of dollars of bailout support through struggling companies in europe through the

international monetary fun which could seek more funding from the u.s. >> it's extraordinary that we are relying on the international monetary fund to bail out europe. i think there will be an immense pressure on the united states to kick in more money. >> reporter: but so far the obama administration has taken a hard line against additional assistance saying europe has its own resources to deal with the debt crisis. megyn: we are getting word of a possible verdict now in the manslaughter trial of michael jackson's doctor, dr. conrad murray. the jury has buzzed three times. they have an sold school system in this los angeles courthouse where the jury has a buzzer to communicate with the outside world. they are in the room by themselves. they buzz if they want to get son's attention. three buzzes can mean a verdict and we are told they have buzzed

three times. it can also mean the jury wants to take a break. they basically just got started out there this morning, so what is more likely. other news outlets are reporting a jury verdict has been reached. we don't know that. casey seeingle is live in l.a. where we are awaiting the news. >> reporter: three buzzes came down 10 minute ago. we are assuming that that means a verdict has been reached here because in the past, when they ask for highlighters on friday and earlier about an hour ago they buzzed twice because they actually needed the toilet paper and paper towels that were brought to the jury room. but they have never used the three buzzes. megyn: i want to interrupt you and tell you -- according to the associated press they confirmed with court officials who say the verdict will be read. so they do have a verdict. the verdict will be read 1:00 p.m. pacific time.

that's consistent with what we were told before. that we'll get a 2-hour notice. >> reporter: just before we came out live here we were hearing that among the press here ourselves. but no one from the court have officially confirmed that. thought it is a report out on the associated press, our own fox news producer lee ross is inside the superior court back here behind me and i'm holing my blackberry in my hand waiting on an email because that's how we communicate with our producers inside. he says they are trying to confirm this with the court. but that associated press report saying the verdict would be read in two hour's time from now. if that is the case we'll find out whether they have in fact reached this unanimous decision. they would convict conrad murray on this one count of involuntary

manslaughter. well find out if the defense was able to paint a picture of conrad murray as a man helping others. and that michael jackson himself gave himself that lethal dose of propofol mixed with other drugs while conrad murray stepped out of the room. then you have the prosecution saying it was conrad murray who gave michael jackson that powerful anesthetic that should only be used in a hospital or clinical-typesetting but instead was being used in michael jackson's home to help him sleep as was preparing for the upcoming concert series in london. we are working to confirm all this information. if that stand to be the case we'll hear a verdict in two hours. they deliberated for 2 1/2 hours this morning. they started at 8:30 local time. and they also deliberated for 6 hours on friday. and they did not reach a

decision. that's why they took the weekend off. this jury is not sequestered. they have been instructed as they left each night and going over the weekend to not watch any news, to not pick up any newspapers and things like that. megyn: we are up against a break. what is the status of the family? is the jackson family near by? do we expect them to be there? >> reporter: the jackson family is reportedly staying at a nearby hotel in downtown los angeles so they are able to get here quickly. we are told once a verdict decision was announced there will be a two-hour window to allow for all the parties. megyn of course we are staying on top of this and we'll keep you posted as soon as we know more. megyn: it is involuntary manslaughter of dr. conrad

murray. he stands to serve four years there prison if he is convicted and perhaps nowhere near even that. however, this was one of the biggest pop stars in the world. and he is now dead according to the prosecutors at the hand of his own personal physician who gave him drugs and treated him in a manner he never should have done. that's the prosecution's theory. the defense said michael jackson did it himself. he was an addict who took it one step too far. the jury did not seem to have a tough time coming to a verdict one way or another. you never know, a fast verdict can mean any one of a number of things. we are going to continue to await and we'll get our legal panel who has been on this case with us from the beginning moments from now as we appear to have a verdict in the trial of michael jackson's doctor. never before has a visit to the state capital been this controversial. a field trip that has sphairnt outraged and a teach on thin

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megyn: we have confirmed a verdict is expected in the trial of michael jackson's doctor. the jury has concluded the case and reached a not guilty or guilty verdict. we don't know which. but we'll find out 4:00 p.m. eastern time right here together. the court promised to give a two-hour warning before the verdict was read. the family is nearby in a courtroom. they will get to the courthouse. i can tell you from having practiced law, there is no time like this for the attorneys in the case it's 10 times worse for the family members and for

dr. murray knowing that the jury has done its job and will render the final judgment on this case one way or another until the inevitable appeals take place. but we'll find out in less than two hours. and coming up in the next segment we'll have our legal panel weigh in on the timing it was rather quick. iran now capable of building an atomic bomb. a report from the world's nuclear watchdog, iaea officials saying scientists from the former soviet union, china and north korea have helped iran build a nuke. walid, thank you for being here. we have been expecting this iaea report this weekend but now we are getting heads up and it is

foreign expertise has helped iran and it all but has a nuclear weapon there that could explain a lot about what we have been hearing about israel's consideration of a possible preemptive strike. >> absolutely. the big picture is very important to understand what the iran leaderships up to. for many years the iranians have basically understood if they could use that weapon quickly and they don't have any protection around it, somebody in the international community, israel may take it out. so they worked slowly on the weapon. get the technologies ready but meantime create the protection system. this missile system. if they can establish the missile range and launching pad when we want to interact with them it would be too late. not you iranians say we have the missiles. megyn: they have been working on

this with a scientist from the soviet union. a former soviet nuclear scientist who contracted in the mid-90s with iran. and they go on with how he helped iran. they briefly paused in 2003, but then continued it in earnest. we have been getting these reports, it doesn't have a nuke, and now we get this, they have been developing it, they are on the precipice. they have something nuclear they can put on a missile. what are we to believe when it comes to iran and it future when we get reports like this? >> we are not ahead of the curve. they told us the iranians stopped. stopped what? they went underground with it. we are discovering things that have been happening over the

past decade and specifically the past 3 to 4 years. the iranians now are surprising the international community that they will not declare it before we are out of iraq it's important to the geopolitical contact. they don't want american forces capable of deterring them when they are going to dedirt. megyn: what are we suppose to do in the wake of this report. >> we have to take the iranians to the international security committee. say we would take all the measures against that weapon and talk to all those working and helping the iranians. on the economic level, the business level, and tell them this is very serious not just against national security u.s. but against international security as well. megyn: walid phares, thank you, sir. we are awaiting the verdict in

the trial of dr. conrad murray. we'll have our legal panel unafter the break. they are in, folks. the verdict coming up. those first young men. the pioneers. the aviators. building superhighways in an unknown sky. their safety systems built of brain and heart, transforming strange names from tall tales into pictures on postcards home.

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megyn: fox news alert. we have a verdict in the involuntary manslaughter trial of dr. conrad murray. the defense posited that michael jackson gave himself the final lethal dose of propofol the prosecution showed is only used in hospital o.r.s and should never have been in a private home. kimberly. you prosecuted an involuntary

manslaughter case that got a lot of coverage in this very courtroom. >> the exact same courtroom. to me i'll make a prediction. i think it will be a guilty verdict. all they had to prove was that he just did the actual act of providing and furnishing michael jackson with the propofol and that contributed to his death. the fact pattern is persuasive. megyn: he admits he gave him some but doesn't admit he gave him a lethal dose. >> i don't think it's believable that he self-administered to a point that caused his death. even if he took lorazepam, they would have to believe it is what

caused the death and completely absolve dr. conrad murray of the crime. but he left the room and he shouldn't have been giving him any amount of propofol. megyn: we have a doctor who was medically negligent. and someone who committed manslaughter. that's another leap. that is a big leap. do you think based on what you heard this jury would be prepared to do it? >> i'll play devil's advocate. he could have easily taken that extra dose. he did it when he wasn't in the room. that's a real issue. if the jury sees that as reasonable doubt, it may have been michael jackson who caused his own death. megyn: what i think is

interesting is the prosecution's expert did make a key admission, it's not impossible for michael jackson to have reached up and messed with the regulator on the i.v. drip. you know if you have ever had surgery it's one thing if it's in your home. you don't have to eliminate all doubt as a prosecutor. but that may resonate with the jury. 9 hours in total we are told the jury is out. deliberated friday. today they did almost nothing. it looks like they had their verdict. do we know anything -- does that tell you anything? >> my gut instinct is that this is going to be a really verdict for the prosecution, especially again, they could have charged him -- i would say said he acted with such reckless disregard it was likely death would occur from his action.

they didn't go with that because i think they felt it would be a stretch. here they went down to involuntary manslaughter. you know who has been convicted of involuntary manslaughter? skiers. if they die because you run into them and you are skiing recklessly, you intentionally went down the hill too fast. this guy, there were 7 or 8 different areas where he was negligent. if you are dealing with a drug like propofol do you want the anesthesiologist to leave the room when you are having surgery? no, you do not. when you take propofol you are out. it's not likely whatsoever -- megyn: i think people remember the jury in the o.j. simpson case and wonder about california juries. this jury is made up of 7 men and 5 women, all different

races. i have to tell you, even though as a legal -- as a lawyer, i look at case and say i think they made the case they needed to make. i won't be shocked if it comes back not guilty. >> once you take it to the jury you never know what many going to happen. it's so true. look at all the individuals that testified on behalf of dr. murray and said he was wonderful. he saved my life. look at everything he did for me. that could be compelling to these jurors it's a shame michael jackson did this. maybe there is reasonable doubt he did this to himself. if there is any ounce of doubt, that jury -- megyn: casey anthony was acquitted. >> a juror will say i think you are going to harsh on him. he seems to be a good man who did good things for charity. but good people sometimes do bad

things. in this case a bad thing was done by dr. murray. meg will be it crossed the line from medical malpractice into involuntary manslaughter and apparently they made their decision. clarification. on a poll we used at top of our hour in our discussion with larry sabato we shed a washington abc news poll showed 61% strongly disappeared. the numbers were 48% strongly disapproved. 13% somewhat disapproved and. our apologies for that error. breaking news ahead. on the penn state football program. horrific charges of sex abuse by one coach. arrests and resignations and an interesting press conference today coming up in "kelly's court." if you're on medicare and thinking about

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at the time. and she says she called him on his behavior right away. >> i was very surprised and very shocked. i said what are you doing? you know i have a boyfriend. this isn't what i came here for. mr. cain said, you want a job, right? i asked him to stop and he did. i asked him to take me back to my hotel which he did right away. megyn: three other unidentified women have accused him of sexual harassment. only three of the four filed complaints at the time. that's significant legally because it gives the accused the opportunity to confirm or deny. herman cain has come out and denied these allegation. more as it comes in. the republican national committee spending big on political ads, blasting president obama for his handling

of the struggling economy. but how are voters responding? pollster frank luntz is here an has his finger on the pulse of america. >> the campaign has begun already even thought it's 12 months away. the two ads i have brought to you will be typical of wall see the next 12 months. it's becoming more fact teulg fuel and specific and the facts are showing evidence why they should vote against barack obama. let's take a look at the first ad. >> the question is not are you better off than you were four years ago, the real question is will this country be better off four years from now. >> in the three years since he took office unemployment has gone up nearly 7%. >> if i don't have this done in

three years there will and one-term possibility. >> i don't think they are better off than they were four years ago. >> we lost our ambition and imagination. they are protesting wall street and they are also protesting the white house. >> why have you waited. >> change we can believe in tomorrow, change we can believe in next week. the country can't wait four more years. it's time to try something new. >> reporter: it's all about evidence. specific examples. specific numbers. specific quotes from the evidence. his own voice. his own visuals. that's what makes that ad powerful. even people who vote for him are acknowledging that ad is persuasive in terms of who they will vote for. megyn: when you show these ads and you see the party line go

up, the green line, what krause that line doing going up. i would think the democrats would hate that ad. >> reporter: you have to acknowledge a fact. obama's greatest weakness is wasteful washington spending. they support what he's trying to do in terms of social issues and tax increase for millionaires, but even his own voters do not support how much money washington is spending and they believe he hasn't cut the budget enough. that's what this argument is about. the economy is not only not any better by it's actually worse than it was three years ago and they hold him somewhat responsible for it. megyn: you did additional research. what was the second ad? >> this is talking about flip-flop. not quite as powerful as the first one. but let's take a look. >> if i don't have this done in three years, then there is going to be a one-term proposition.

i don't think they are better off than they were four years ago. >> i think that we are better off now than we would have been ... >> i don't think they are better off than they were four years ago. >> i think we are better off now than we would have been. >> if i don't get this done in three years there will be a one-term proposition. >> reporter: it's a little bit more tbim -- it's a little bit more gimmicky. but you speaking for himself. any groups that make claims of what obama said or did, they will fail. but showing his own word. you show what he said in 2008 and compare it to today. not only is it persuasive. but even among his own voters its moves people. these are two successful ads from the republican national

committee. megyn: frank luntz, thank you very much. new developments at the courthouse in los angeles as we await the reading of the verdict in the manslaughter case of michael jackson's doctor. when you get verdicts it's a big deal in american society. what hold us together besides law and order. whether it's a casey anthony kind of case or scott peterson. these are moments about how our justice system works. whether we believe tonight or think it needs some polishing up or whether it's working. and we share in those together as americans for better or worse. it will happen today at 4:00 p.m. eastern right here. breaking news on some astonishing and awful allegations against one of the most respect figures in college football. child sex assault charges at penn state university next in "kelly's court." what's better than gold ?

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megyn: fox news alert we are on verdict watch in los angeles. we are told the jury has indeed reached a verdict in the man salute are trial of michael jackson's doctor conrad murray. latoya jackson tweeting, the verdict is finally in. i'm on my way. i'm shaking uncontrollably. we are hearing dr. murray is saying he went to church in los angeles last night and he is quote optimistic that he will be found not guilty. we'll find out at 4:00 p.m. eastern time right here. in the meantime "kelly's court" is back in session. on the docket, happy valley rocked by horrific allegation of sexual abuse. the former defensive coordinator for the penn state nittany lions. once considered a candidate to

replace joe paterno as head coach. sandusky now charged with sexually assaulting eight young boys over the course of 15 years. children he met through a charity he started to help children. high-ranking school officials have been forced to resign and are facing perjuries, accused of lying to a grand jury about this investigation. coach paterno is not being accused of any wrongdoing. joining me now, kimberly bill foil and this is disgusting with this man sandusky is accused of doing. how does this case look to you at this hour? >> these are amongst the most horrific charges any prosecutor will see come across their desk.

someone who preys over children over an extended period of time, and what's really bad is there appears to be convincing, compelling evidence that individuals within the school organization knew about this. failed to alert the police as they are supposed to do under pennsylvania law. they are supposed to notify -- especially if you see something going on at the facility with one of the minors which is alleged a graduate student saw it there. he was using their facility at the time to mentor the individual and the acts of molest station are alleged to have occurred at penn state. megyn: unfortunately for prosecutors you usually have tough times proving it because you only have the word of the child and they can be cross examined and shaken up. but we have eyewitnesses. a janitor, and a college brad student. and this one is going to be important. in 2002, according to the

prosecutors with, a college grad student allegedly saw sandusky sexually assaulting a boy in the team locker room shower. that dprad student reported it to paterno the head coach who told his lieutenant -- the grand jury believes that guy lied about how much he knew as did the other guy who was appointed to investigate this, shultz. the grab jury believed they knew what that grad student had said and they failed to do much about it. it's not just about sandusky. >> where were you standing, what was the lighting, what did you see exactly. the fact that this eyewitness described it to someone else. the be we thought it was horsing around. right now we don't have all the facts. we don't know what we are seeing. we don't know what the circumstances were. but it was enough for the two

school officials who are well respect who have been at the university to conclude it wasn't a sexual assault but rather horsing around. megyn: horsing around with a 10-year-old boy in the shower, a grown man? neither one of these guys curly nor shultz report wad they saw to the police. since when did they get their investigative badges? >> this is so offensive. maybe mercedes is right. but these two individuals that you are looking at on the screen, they had an obligation, moral, ethical and legal to report this to the authorities so they could properly investigate it when you are dealing with a 10-year-old little boy who is at at-risk youth. megyn: this guy curly said he was merely horsing around. he didn't report anything of a

sexual nature to me. but i did bar sandusky from bringing children onto campus. are you telling me curly believes they were just horsing around, it wants of a sexual nature but he wound up barring sandusky from bringing children on campus? >> it was not enough to say i'll call the authorities. the law is very specific. if children were actually students at penn state they were supposed to contact the law enforcement officials. but that's not what the law requires. shultz should have called law enforcement. but under the law they were required to make that call if they were student at penn state and they were not. megyn: i don't know that mercedes states the law accurately. there is a question about whether she states the law accurately. then there is a moral question about whether when you get a

grad student making an allegation like this, you do enough by looking into it and not calling police? we'll pick that up right after this break. [ sniffs ] i have a cold. [ sniffs ] i took dayquil but my nose is still runny. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't treat that. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose. [ deep breath] awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is. that's the cold truth! and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. [ woman ] lower cholesterol.

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megyn: the deal is, they are charged with failure to alert the authorities to this incident and also of lying to the grand jury about it. those are two different things. is it not the obligation of these guys to do more than less. one of these guys was head of campus police off course it is. they turned the other way. penn state is a powerful university. as of last week joe paterno is the most wins of any football coach in division i history. there is a question whether joe paterno could be charged if he

had knowledge and did not notify the proper authorities. it's one thing to tell about something happening to a student or individual over the age of 18 at penn state. but we are talking about a legal only gaisks notifying the authorities of a minor. megyn: this guy work on behalf of -- do you think that will sit with the jury. i know he's got a great reputation. he many the head of the program. i saw one of your coaches, former coaches in the locker room assaulting a young boy. some incident in the shower with your guy and a 10-year-old. and paterno said i did enough by appointing two people to look into it. two non-cops and those buys come back and say it's taken care of? who doesn't call the police?

>> even the prosecutor who wants to go after these folks for charges said paterno didn't do anything wrongened the law. we'll look at these two officials and maybe curly and shuttle, let's see if they did anything wrong. it's specific to the student, it -- if the student was part of penn state shultz would have contacted the cops. >> how do you sleep at night if you look at other way ... megyn: even paterno admits the grad student was disturbed by what he saw. he said the eyewitness was distraught over what he saw. i have got to go. kimberly, mercedes. when it comes to children, everyone in this country has an obligation to do more, not less.

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